tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18907156.post1174013373885195203..comments2024-03-19T00:40:08.529-04:00Comments on Today's Inspiration: Ben Stahl: "... injecting life - or spirit - into a picture"leifpenghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07232334860061949895noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18907156.post-88685979231109072002010-11-07T14:42:07.097-05:002010-11-07T14:42:07.097-05:00cDid you know that Stahl owned a copy of Robert Fa...cDid you know that Stahl owned a copy of Robert Fawcett's Famous Artist's advanced program? That suggests to me that he was maybe aware of something Fawcett did that he {Stahl}, didn't.Accurate drawing was Fawcett's strongest suit.Credit to Stahl, though, for recognising a weakness and attempting to improve it.<br />Unlike a lot of things in art which are subjective, correct anatomy is not.Remonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18907156.post-73261444040871652552010-11-06T23:26:46.145-04:002010-11-06T23:26:46.145-04:00Tom-
I agree.
It's great that there's a...Tom-<br /><br />I agree. <br /><br />It's great that there's a place like Today's Inspiration where we can talk about all this stuff.Daniel Zalkushttp://www.zalkus.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18907156.post-1035545724422226812010-11-06T21:52:01.766-04:002010-11-06T21:52:01.766-04:00Daniel, I think we are both on the same page, and ...Daniel, I think we are both on the same page, and your points are well taken. Thanks for your polite and well articulated response. I think one of the assets of TI is that we can exchange our thoughts, ideas and insight.<br /><br />Tom WatsonTomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13237565169344311948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18907156.post-7476776023833921182010-11-06T18:20:01.635-04:002010-11-06T18:20:01.635-04:00Tom-
I think you might be confusing my posts. I w...Tom-<br /><br />I think you might be confusing my posts. I was specifically responding to Remo when he said: "That's a delicate balance because you need the viewer to suspend disbelief and buy into your illusion, if something jars because it is not correct-in essence- then that can diminish the strength of the picture."<br /><br />I do think the changes Stahl made end up being a matter of personal taste and that not everyone will see the anatomy flaws that Remo did.<br /><br />I certainly don't see that as a distraction and pointed out the things I thought were odd. But that's why it's great to see these things. We get to look inside Stahl's thought process a bit when it comes to making pictures.<br /><br />As for taste and school I don't think you can compare the two. A student saying "Isn't it a matter of personal taste" after a critique is different than a person looking at paintings on a website (or at a museum). <br /><br />However I do agree with you about teaching. There's more too it than simply a matter of personal taste.<br /><br />Don't get me wrong. I think Stahl was good and I'm glad to see the posts this past week. I didn't know a lot about his work and it was great to learn more and see samples.Daniel Zalkushttp://www.zalkus.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18907156.post-23117300700786816052010-11-06T14:50:34.447-04:002010-11-06T14:50:34.447-04:00Correction, I ment to say 'half a century late...Correction, I ment to say 'half a century later', not 'half a decade later'. <br /><br />Daniel, I understand your point, and agree to a certain extent that the difference between one top illustrator and another, can be personal taste. When I was teaching at the Academy of Art in S.F., occasionally a student would say to me, "Isn't it a matter of personal taste", after I would critique his or her assignment. My answer was usually, "If it were just a matter of personal taste, you wouldn't need your assignment's critiqued".. actually we wouldn't need art schools. The point of Stahl's sketches was to show how most illustrators, and specifically Ben Stahl arrives at a solution for a finished illustration. <br /><br />Tom WatsonTomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13237565169344311948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18907156.post-55458802033124313422010-11-06T11:15:26.753-04:002010-11-06T11:15:26.753-04:00Tom-
I'm not questioning Stahl's accompli...Tom-<br /><br />I'm not questioning Stahl's accomplishments, he was great, all I was responding too was that sketch. <br /><br />Like I said in my previous post I thought his choices were a bit odd but it's a matter of personal taste. I also don't know the story he was illustrating. It could be a case where he changed things to better tell the story.Daniel Zalkushttp://www.zalkus.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18907156.post-44902089489157054062010-11-06T04:02:28.919-04:002010-11-06T04:02:28.919-04:00Daniel and Remo, the viewer does not have the phot...Daniel and Remo, the viewer does not have the photo reference to compare to the finished illustration, therefore it's the end product that is important. Set aside your personal preferences and taste, and look at the man's qualifications and accomplishments. He was one of the top mid century illustrators along side giants like Al Dorne, Norman Rockwell, Robert Fawcett, Austin Briggs, Al Parker, etc. He was a founding member of the original Famous Artists School, which was a very prestigious honor, and he won many awards for his illustrations.. not to mention a very successful fine art career, after the decline of the illustration market. My point being, it's easy to play Monday Monday morning quarterback (over a half decade later) from our easy chair, but Stahl earned his accolades in the trenches. He didn't rise to the top by making a lot of bad artistic decisions. Therefore, I cut him a lot of slack on the small stuff, and try and learn from his very qualified assets as an illustrator.<br /><br />Tom WatsonTomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13237565169344311948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18907156.post-2080913258793389132010-11-05T22:24:53.466-04:002010-11-05T22:24:53.466-04:00Remo-
I think the changes he made end up being a ...Remo-<br /><br />I think the changes he made end up being a matter of personal taste. Not everyone is going to see anatomy problems like you do.<br /><br />What I found odd is that he made her grab the guy with one hand instead of two. IMO it gives the action less impact.<br /><br />He also bulked the woman up and she reminds me of a tough farmer. Not sure if that was part of the story but she's definitely not the model he photographed!Daniel Zalkushttp://www.zalkus.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18907156.post-88718730893207546932010-11-05T19:48:22.643-04:002010-11-05T19:48:22.643-04:00That's a delicate balance because you need the...That's a delicate balance because you need the viewer to suspend disbelief and buy into your illusion, if something jars because it is not correct-in essence- then that can diminish the strength of the picture.<br />That is a different thing from 'selective focus' where a hand could be proportionally correct but deliberately loosely rendered.<br />If you look at Stahl's first sketches {particularly the third} you'll see they look a lot less stilted than the final picture.Both in terms of anatomy and expressive movement.It's like he worked all the life out of them as the picture progressed.<br />I must say, I like his color palette.Remonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18907156.post-71727198793627208922010-11-05T18:28:45.980-04:002010-11-05T18:28:45.980-04:00I think it is important to compare the photo and t...I think it is important to compare the photo and the illustration. The photo is staged like two actors posing on stage for the audience, frozen for the camera.. and it visually conveys that feeling. The illustration is full of energy, and I can feel the action of the two figures as I look at it. It is full of human emotion and artistic decisions. N.C. Wyeth was quoted that an illustrator has to feel the strain in his body, while illustrating an action scene. I think Stahl was focusing on the subjectivity of the scene.. how both figures felt, emotionally and physically. The girl is straining and stretching toward the man much more in the illustration than in the photo. The man's pose is more fluid than the model in the photo, and the background heightens the sense of high energy. <br /><br />When I was an illustration student, I mentioned to my instructor that a hand was poorly drawn and painted in an Edgar Degas art book we were looking at. The teacher said, If Degas felt it was important to paint the hand anatomically accurate and realistic, he was more than capable. He left it rough and unfinished because he wanted the attention entirely on the face, and he wanted an immediate spontaneous feel to the painting. Degas was being selective by merely suggesting the hand. I think Ben Stahl made similar decisions, and like Degas, the more confident and mature he became as an artist, the more he felt confident in simplify and exaggerate the figures. Even Robert Fawcett's later (1960s) illustrations were often simplified, looser and even distorted, to convey his objective. <br /><br />Tom WatsonTomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13237565169344311948noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18907156.post-43289116267013841942010-11-05T16:04:44.168-04:002010-11-05T16:04:44.168-04:00I don't see it as a major problem, but the pro...I don't see it as a major problem, but the proportions of the girl in the reference photo have been lost in the painting. I think a combination of Fawcett's accuracy with Stahl's visceral dynamics would be a great combination.Remonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18907156.post-9801148718449489292010-11-05T14:48:04.724-04:002010-11-05T14:48:04.724-04:00Yes; anatomical correctness has its value, no doub...Yes; anatomical correctness has its value, no doubt.<br />I think the vast majority of the reading public will be very forgiving for a slight anomaly here and there, if the mood has been created successfully. As obviously is the case here: As a novel reader I couldn't ask for more.Richnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18907156.post-81953815549735874052010-11-05T11:35:19.130-04:002010-11-05T11:35:19.130-04:00This is very interesting. I'm drawn to the ide...This is very interesting. I'm drawn to the idea that the girl's frustration should be conveyed by her posture and not reliant on her facial expression. However, I'm not convinced that her anatomy looks right, her arm looks too long and there's something not quite right about the head and shoulder structure.<br />But I like this fine art approach, you can see it in some of the best illustrators of the previous era- in particular Saul Tepper.Remonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-18907156.post-14412335541036181042010-11-05T10:15:54.098-04:002010-11-05T10:15:54.098-04:00Leif-
Great to see Stahl's sketches and read ...Leif-<br /><br />Great to see Stahl's sketches and read a bit about his process. <br /><br />Also interesting to note is that American Artist Magazine used to interview well known illustrators. When is the last time they did that today?Daniel Zalkushttp://www.zalkus.comnoreply@blogger.com